What happened to these people, as you continue to describe their circumstances, imho, is beyond "snookered"
This is from an article from the March 27, 2025 NYRB
An Expanding Vision of America by Nicole Eustace [is the Julius Silver Family Professor of History at New York University. Her book, Covered with Night: A Story of Murder and Indigenous Justice in Early America won the 2022 Pulitzer Prize for History.
She includes the review of three books in what she has to say about indigenous people and their historical significance:
Native Nations: A Millennium in North America by Kathleen DuVal
Indigenous Continent: The Epic Contest for North America
The Rediscovery of America: Native Peoples and the Unmaking of US History by Ned Blackhawk
Here are the last two paragraphs:
The expansion of the United States, far from being accomplished by virtuous farmers and liberty-loving patriots somehow able to float above the sordid history of imperialism, relied on remarkable levels of rhetorical and physical violence. Blackhawk insists that we must reckon with the fact that no sooner did Europeans set food in America than they began systematically despoiling the continent and its peoples. At every critical point in the subsequent political and economic development of the United States, purloined Native resources proved pivotal. Together with the forced labor of enslaved peoples of Africa and the Americas, stolen lands and resources made possible the creation of the world’s first modern constitutional democracy. *
Reconciling the reality of mass thievery, enslavement, suffering, and death with more familiar and comfortable stories of the spread of liberty, prosperity, civility, and law is an enormously difficult task. Yet only by confronting the complicated facts of collective past may the United States today move toward greater truths, toward new forms of redress for Indigenous peoples and descendants of the enslaved, and toward the recuperation of the nation’s finest values—freedom, equality, and opportunity. There are not shortcuts and no fairy-tale flying machines to take us there, but there are strongly researched and written books of history that may help us begin to work toward the realization of America’s most lofty promises.
*See Martin Loughlin, “the Contemporary Crisis of Constitutional Democracy,” Oxford Journal of Legal Studies, Vol 39, no. 2 (2019), pp. 435-454.
Thanks, Margaret. I will look for the review and I've been reading Ned Blackhawk's book. THE REDISCOVRY OF AMERICA.
Snookered. It seemed a fitting verb from this era. Its' origin comes from billiards. Pool halls became popular around this time. It meant to put someone into an impossible situation, one where there were no winning outcomes.
This could be a book in itself! To tell their stories of intersecting lives, family background, colonial and tribal histories, and how boundaries, both familial and state/nation, are challenging. As always, thank you for your angles and research.
Maybe this research I keep unearthing after I've finished editing this first book will become something...a second book. For now, figuring out what happened here to the people and this place since my great-grandparents arrived is a full meal served on small plates once a week.
What a fascinating story! I am so intrigued by the unanswered questions here, as you say. From such questions have sprung many novels. Can't wait to read more about this.
SO many questions unanswered, I know. I'm not a historical fiction writer, but I am reading John Sayles new novel TO SAVE THE MAN which is set at the Carlisle Institute in 1892. It is so cinematic; interesting he chose the form of a novel to tell this history.
It may be the old wemon knew they were too closly related.. Just a guess because of the mystry. there ia a property on a road south of rosevelt . The last name on it was white . I know it was sopme how related to the thunders, When I live on an ajacent road a native young man came knocking about midnight and was questioning if he was near the point. My wife and I care for my quadrap;egic brother in his house. this was 2004. I delivered him to thepolice in warroad at about 3 am. It sounde like a car full of natives had run into the dirch when it was 15 below . He was mumbling about going to the "point" At that time I was investiging the 200 page law suit donald Kakaygeesic and I filed in us court at fergus falls. The native had another famous point that I believe was over by international falls minnesota, In the law suit I mentioned a naturalist who met nay may puck and kakageesic in the 1880 They went north of wawarroad to hunt a moose which became pat of a musium in perhaps the univercity of ok . I am not shure it is a riviting story how he traveled throug the roseau area to get to warrod. there is a charming story of the chief dowing a bottle of perhaps "ginger" The authour was amaze the chief downed it without any discomfort, Gerald Fish . IIf you read the book "we have the right to exist" snookered at red lakered lake I may have gotten some information , White earth authr " "the man in a blue suit" Journals of thedam on lake of the woods. first floded in 1930 then In 19 50s testimony of kakaygeesick an namay puck Gerald fish
Thanks for reading Gerald Fish. I'm not sure which naturalist in the 1880s you are referring to here but I'd love to know more about this story of hunting a moose for a museum!
Fascinating, and honestly, I thought your use of "snookered" relating to the Ojibway and the Treaty 3 negotiations was perfect. They were in an impossible situation, because the negotiations happened in a language they did not understand. And the power was not theirs. Thanks, as always, for the "re-history" you are so patiently researching and writing.
I never imagine all the getting together and breaking up happening in "the good old days," but here it is. What complex lives everyone led, not so different from now. No wonder the guy got punched for stealing another man's land. Snookered is a perfect word.
(As an aside, my grandmother's brother owned a pool hall in Chicago and that's how my grandparents were introduced. )
While the Paypom document gives good reasons for why Duncan Begg might have argued with Powassin, Duncan Begg didn't steal another man's land. He was simply the translator and paid for his services as he didn't get any land himself in the deal nor get rich for his troubles.
whoa, what happened to Helen? Was Tom the actual father?
I actually went to a snookers tournament at Wembley a zillion years ago. What a fascinating set of skills it takes to hide the cue ball so that it cannot be used to target (higher value) balls. I do love the verb.
I didn't know there were serious snooker tournaments!
As for Helen, she left the Lake of the Woods area with her father Fred Conover. Her obituary (2012) said she was raised by her father in White Salmon, Washington. In the geneaological records the two of them are identified as related but no other family connections. I believe Helen was Fred Conover's daughter.
What happened to these people, as you continue to describe their circumstances, imho, is beyond "snookered"
This is from an article from the March 27, 2025 NYRB
An Expanding Vision of America by Nicole Eustace [is the Julius Silver Family Professor of History at New York University. Her book, Covered with Night: A Story of Murder and Indigenous Justice in Early America won the 2022 Pulitzer Prize for History.
She includes the review of three books in what she has to say about indigenous people and their historical significance:
Native Nations: A Millennium in North America by Kathleen DuVal
Indigenous Continent: The Epic Contest for North America
The Rediscovery of America: Native Peoples and the Unmaking of US History by Ned Blackhawk
Here are the last two paragraphs:
The expansion of the United States, far from being accomplished by virtuous farmers and liberty-loving patriots somehow able to float above the sordid history of imperialism, relied on remarkable levels of rhetorical and physical violence. Blackhawk insists that we must reckon with the fact that no sooner did Europeans set food in America than they began systematically despoiling the continent and its peoples. At every critical point in the subsequent political and economic development of the United States, purloined Native resources proved pivotal. Together with the forced labor of enslaved peoples of Africa and the Americas, stolen lands and resources made possible the creation of the world’s first modern constitutional democracy. *
Reconciling the reality of mass thievery, enslavement, suffering, and death with more familiar and comfortable stories of the spread of liberty, prosperity, civility, and law is an enormously difficult task. Yet only by confronting the complicated facts of collective past may the United States today move toward greater truths, toward new forms of redress for Indigenous peoples and descendants of the enslaved, and toward the recuperation of the nation’s finest values—freedom, equality, and opportunity. There are not shortcuts and no fairy-tale flying machines to take us there, but there are strongly researched and written books of history that may help us begin to work toward the realization of America’s most lofty promises.
*See Martin Loughlin, “the Contemporary Crisis of Constitutional Democracy,” Oxford Journal of Legal Studies, Vol 39, no. 2 (2019), pp. 435-454.
Thanks, Margaret. I will look for the review and I've been reading Ned Blackhawk's book. THE REDISCOVRY OF AMERICA.
Snookered. It seemed a fitting verb from this era. Its' origin comes from billiards. Pool halls became popular around this time. It meant to put someone into an impossible situation, one where there were no winning outcomes.
This could be a book in itself! To tell their stories of intersecting lives, family background, colonial and tribal histories, and how boundaries, both familial and state/nation, are challenging. As always, thank you for your angles and research.
Maybe this research I keep unearthing after I've finished editing this first book will become something...a second book. For now, figuring out what happened here to the people and this place since my great-grandparents arrived is a full meal served on small plates once a week.
What a fascinating story! I am so intrigued by the unanswered questions here, as you say. From such questions have sprung many novels. Can't wait to read more about this.
SO many questions unanswered, I know. I'm not a historical fiction writer, but I am reading John Sayles new novel TO SAVE THE MAN which is set at the Carlisle Institute in 1892. It is so cinematic; interesting he chose the form of a novel to tell this history.
It may be the old wemon knew they were too closly related.. Just a guess because of the mystry. there ia a property on a road south of rosevelt . The last name on it was white . I know it was sopme how related to the thunders, When I live on an ajacent road a native young man came knocking about midnight and was questioning if he was near the point. My wife and I care for my quadrap;egic brother in his house. this was 2004. I delivered him to thepolice in warroad at about 3 am. It sounde like a car full of natives had run into the dirch when it was 15 below . He was mumbling about going to the "point" At that time I was investiging the 200 page law suit donald Kakaygeesic and I filed in us court at fergus falls. The native had another famous point that I believe was over by international falls minnesota, In the law suit I mentioned a naturalist who met nay may puck and kakageesic in the 1880 They went north of wawarroad to hunt a moose which became pat of a musium in perhaps the univercity of ok . I am not shure it is a riviting story how he traveled throug the roseau area to get to warrod. there is a charming story of the chief dowing a bottle of perhaps "ginger" The authour was amaze the chief downed it without any discomfort, Gerald Fish . IIf you read the book "we have the right to exist" snookered at red lakered lake I may have gotten some information , White earth authr " "the man in a blue suit" Journals of thedam on lake of the woods. first floded in 1930 then In 19 50s testimony of kakaygeesick an namay puck Gerald fish
Thanks for reading Gerald Fish. I'm not sure which naturalist in the 1880s you are referring to here but I'd love to know more about this story of hunting a moose for a museum!
Fascinating, and honestly, I thought your use of "snookered" relating to the Ojibway and the Treaty 3 negotiations was perfect. They were in an impossible situation, because the negotiations happened in a language they did not understand. And the power was not theirs. Thanks, as always, for the "re-history" you are so patiently researching and writing.
Thanks, Susan, for endorsing my verb choice. I confess I also like the sound of the word snookered.
Snookered is kind of onomatopoeic, isn't it? :)
I never imagine all the getting together and breaking up happening in "the good old days," but here it is. What complex lives everyone led, not so different from now. No wonder the guy got punched for stealing another man's land. Snookered is a perfect word.
(As an aside, my grandmother's brother owned a pool hall in Chicago and that's how my grandparents were introduced. )
Blended families aren't anything new, I guess.
While the Paypom document gives good reasons for why Duncan Begg might have argued with Powassin, Duncan Begg didn't steal another man's land. He was simply the translator and paid for his services as he didn't get any land himself in the deal nor get rich for his troubles.
whoa, what happened to Helen? Was Tom the actual father?
I actually went to a snookers tournament at Wembley a zillion years ago. What a fascinating set of skills it takes to hide the cue ball so that it cannot be used to target (higher value) balls. I do love the verb.
I didn't know there were serious snooker tournaments!
As for Helen, she left the Lake of the Woods area with her father Fred Conover. Her obituary (2012) said she was raised by her father in White Salmon, Washington. In the geneaological records the two of them are identified as related but no other family connections. I believe Helen was Fred Conover's daughter.
Riveting, Jill! Looking forward to the next "installments."
Thanks for reading, Jenna.
What an amazing story, rich with layers of history. Super sleuthing!
There are so many unanswered questions, but it is clear personal lives and loves are complicated by the history of our ancestors. Thanks for reading.